Yommy Ojo Money Story Podcast Audio
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Yommy Ojo: ~So the way I see it is~ [00:00:00] business is about solving a problem and going on a journey where there's. The possibility of success, the possibility of failure, and who do you play that game with, right? ~Um,~ and I believe that is gonna make all the difference. Now, depending on what stage you're ~in~ in your business, if it's getting started, it's obviously gonna require a lot more momentum.
And you ask that question ~about~ does it make sense to keep that ambition going at, ~you know,~ at all costs? And I think that is the key thing. At what cost? Right? Is it the cost of your employee's mental health? Is it the cost of your family? Because you might be saying, oh, I'm working this hard ~to, you know,~ to provide these things ~for my family, my wife and the kids.~
But ~if you end up losing your wife in the process or not having a really good relationship with your kids,~ was it worth it at all? And. I really feel like ~it,~ it depends, and ~you, you know,~ one needs to be cognizant of what they're sacrificing in the process. ~ to realize and understand what value means.~ Because for me, value [00:01:00] is what you give to other people, not what you implicitly are. ~Or feeling valuable.~
It's what you do for other people. It's what you give to other people. And
that's why I said right at the beginning, value exchange.
Speaker 2: Money is never just about money. It's about who we are, what we've been through, and the systems we live within, and that's what we talk about here on the Money Story Project. ~This is a storytelling project about money and what it means to be human. Inside systems that so often forget our humanity. These are real stories from real people and the power of saying, this is what happened.~
~This is my story is for people in business founders, creatives, freelancers, but really anyone who's ever been made to feel bad with money or wondering why interactions with money have felt the way that they do. It is about seeing that those feelings have roots, that you were never the problem, and finding ways to move through this so we realize we are not alone.~
I am Harriet Formby, a chartered accountant fractional CFO and trauma informed finance coach. I work with mission led business owners who are changing the world for the better. ~Often creative, often neurodivergent, and I help them make finance feel good, do good, and amplify their impact.~ This. Podcast is not about glamorized rights to riches tales.
It's not about fixing our so-called flaws, and it's definitely not about quick fix finance hacks and the latest gimmick. We invite people to tell their own money stories. We also bring in subject matter experts who share both their lived [00:02:00] experience and their professional wisdom, helping us make sense of what we've carried and our path forward.
Harriet Formby: today I am joined by Yommy Ojo. Yommy is an entrepreneur systems and growth strategist and founder of Online Ascension, a full service agency helping service-based businesses grow with less stress and more profit. Yommy began his career in the investment banking industry, giving him a strong financial perspective before moving into entrepreneurial roles in tech and product.
He's led. The development of digital products inside first growth companies, as well as founding businesses of his own Yommy, has been deeply immersed in the startup and scale up ecosystem. Ever since mentoring and advising founders speaking and writing extensively about growth fundraising systems and the realities of building businesses when the pressure is on, Yommy has seen both the ambition [00:03:00] and the scars that come with entrepreneurship.
So a big welcome to Yommy.
Thank you, Harriet. Thank you.
Harriet Formby: ~It is really great to have you here. So~ I'd ~just~ like to start with a check-in. When I say the word money, what feelings or reactions are coming up for you as we go into this conversation today?
Yommy Ojo: ~Good question.~ So for me, when you say the word money, I think about wealth creation and ~I feel about,~ I think about value exchange. Those are the two things that currently money feels like to me.
Harriet Formby: ~Mm,~ really interesting. ~Which, yeah, it's um, especially with your background in Yeah. In kind of the, the banking space and entrepreneurship. That definitely, definitely makes sense. And.~ You started out in banking and then you moved into tech working with startups and scale-ups, as we've said, and founding your own businesses.
So I'd love to know a bit more about how that shift came about and how it has maybe shaped the way you think about money and growth.
Yommy Ojo: ~Yeah, certainly. And.~ When I think about when I started my career in banking, [00:04:00] I was an analyst and working in really big banks. So because of it, I dealt with a lot of data, a lot of modeling, and a lot of fast transactions that needed to be accurate and be meaningful in terms of my journey towards. Growing scale ups and startups.
I actually did a degree in financial computing, so it was almost inevitable apart from the fact that at the time the social network, mark Zuckerberg's, uh, movie had was becoming popularized and there was this bubbling text scene in and around the Silicon Milk roundabout and. Expanding everywhere you could see.
So for me, I was feeding my curiosity and that journey led me onto one [00:05:00] that I'm so glad that I fell upon and never looked back from, which was being part of the orchestration of guiding a team to build great products. To get them to scale, to create distribution and to create value for a lot of people and tackle a lot of the nuances in regards to where products are perceived at different stages of the market in a market that giveth and take us.
So yeah, I feel like it was, uh. It was a curious journey that I had to go on that I'm really excited that I went on to and came with a lot of lessons, so I'm sure we can dig into some of that today.
Harriet Formby: Yeah, really interesting. And ~I'd love to know a bit more about, so what, what was it that specifically, um, ~you mentioned about like the [00:06:00] whole ~this, um,~ the social network and that bubble of sort of Silicon Valley,~ um,~ being a thing. ~So what was it specifically then that you kind of. Took you, yeah. From, from, from kind of the big corporate end, I guess, of banking the whole world of, of that into Entrepr.~
What was it specifically about, like entrepreneurship and what was going on there ~that,~ that excited you or that got you ~sort of~ thinking that way.
Yommy Ojo: ~Hmm.~ That's quite funny because I wouldn't have even thought of it as entrepreneurship at that time. What I do know is I'm. Like the first born son of my parents, right? So for them, coming from a background where, you know, we didn't have a lot of money and my parents included, it felt like a massive risk ~for Le~ for me to ~live,~ leave a very stable job.
Basically. I was set from a very young age and I was earning a lot of money and my parents were really proud to say, ~ah,~ that their son was working in banking for me. ~Um. I, ~I found that I hyper focus really well, and also after a while I start to [00:07:00] look for new patterns. So I felt like at that time I wasn't using enough of my technological skills, which felt a bit disparate from the fact that. In banking at that time, we had all the resources in the world, we had all the data sets, all the opportunity in my eyes, and we had this booming tech scene, which was moving quicker, faster, learning things.
And from the outside looking in, I was just curious and I just wanted a piece of that. And there was something internally that just led me to feel curious about it, and I felt like. It started off from me taking kind of like a year out from banking and saying, look, worst case scenario, if it doesn't pay off, I could go back into banking, and the rest is history.
Harriet Formby: Yeah, I know. ~Um, I,~ I relate to that feeling. I remember when I was working in like a more of a corporate environment.~ I would look at,~ I'd look at what I was doing and I feel like I was just [00:08:00] doing this little part and there was all this potential like out there in the world. And ~I, yeah,~ I really relate to the idea of the curiosity of ~kind of like,~ I wanna go and. ~Yeah,~ experiment with this ~and, and,~ and work out what it is that, you know, is going on and being a part of it. ~But yeah,~ that's definitely, ~um,~ interesting 'cause it's, it's a big leap isn't it, ~to take,~ to go from like~ the,~ the sort of prestige and ~the,~ the well paid job and ~you know,~ people are proud of you. ~Um,~ yeah.
To ~kind of~ take the leap almost and say, right, I'm gonna go into the unknown and like figure it out.
Yommy Ojo: Yeah, it was. It was.
Harriet Formby: ~Yeah. And~ I know you've ~kind of~ seen ~a lot of, um,~ a lot of stories play out for like other founders because you've been so immersed ~in this,~ in this space. I'd love to ask you a few questions about what that looks like. So many founders. ~And,~ and some of us probably, you know, we've done this ourself, we set big headline goals.
~It's,~ it's like, let's reach 1 million turnover, ~10 million turnover.~ You know, [00:09:00] all of these kind of. Glossy, nice targets, and then when you get there, it doesn't always feel like success. Sometimes it, it brings new challenges or it doesn't necessarily deliver the fulfillment you've imagined. So ~I'd love to hear about what,~ from what you've seen. Why does the gap exist between the goals that people set for themself, the financial goals and what they actually want? And do you think the same is true with fundraising? That sometimes getting the capital, like the raising the millions is celebrated as a success, but it brings maybe as many pressures as it solves?
Yommy Ojo: Do you know what? I can talk so much about this. I feel like that's such a great question. I'll never forget when a friend of mine I went to school with actually said that he got into Selfridges, so his business got into Selfridges, and then the day after, he hit such a low point. [00:10:00] And that was because for him, he'd only set a goal as far as reaching the big mega store.
He didn't actually know what his identity was afterwards. And as I've ~gone~ gotten more experience in life, I find that this is actually a common thing now with founders, what is really interesting is I remember a female founder saying that she wanted to hit this next revenue goal. So she was making 20 KA month and for her.
When we started working with her, she mentioned wanting to get her first 30 K month. Right. And what was funny is when we got started onboarding and engaging with her, what she didn't say but ~become~ became very apparent was the fact that she wanted to be. Accepted socially in certain circles, [00:11:00] so it didn't matter about the fact that she was making good money and better than some of the biggest influences in the space.
What mattered to her was the fact that people weren't speaking about her business, her brand, and giving it as much reverence as some of the other names. And I find that fascinating. I think FOMO is one of the most powerful human behaviors and it's used a lot in marketing, in sales, and having acceptance or what some would call being accepted or, um.
Having clout, you know, is another word that I hear ~people~ people use is, um, is actually a big powerful motivator for a lot of business owners. But they won't admit it. ~They,~ they won't admit it. And it's, [00:12:00] it's funny in terms of like how founders and owners actually. Think about their business and are they actually having honest conversations with them when they're mobilizing their team or they're working with another partner who's trusted them to go on this journey with them.
~That is, um,~ that is something that I ~find ~found very eye-opening as I went into this journey more and more.
Harriet Formby: ~Yeah. Yeah, so it's a,~ it's a really great example you've got there. It's almost like in theory we think, oh, ~we,~ we should probably set targets that make sense for the business, but sometimes we end up setting targets because they're what we want. To be able to like, I dunno if this is the right word, but like to brag about ~and to,~ and then ~the, with the,~ you kind of get to the next level then.
So like in that example, if you make the 30K month and like people are gonna perceive you in a different way and. That's fine, but also like we don't [00:13:00] know if a 20 or 30 K month business, like what that actually means inside. Like does it mean more profit or does it mean that you've had to spend loads more on advertising and ad spend or ~what,~ what does, yeah, what does it look like?
So it's, it is always really, I find it fascinating as well when you look at the, like the motivations for the financial targets and then often they're very social, like you said. But does that translate to good financial sense, ~like~ always? ~That's the,~ that's the other question,
isn't it?
Yommy Ojo: Mm Yeah, and I found it really interesting that like, I mean, these were two founders that I'd worked with. One had the big profile and was getting all the likes, the follows, and all the social credibility, but their business wasn't making as much money as this. Of a business that was technically invisible online but was making so much more money.
And it was such a fortunate position to be in because on one hand this [00:14:00] big in, you know, influential founder was actually vetting having a business that actually was generating more income. Whereas this other les known founder was actually coveting. Having the influence. ~So it's,~ it's really interesting, ~um,~ and ~ki~ as you rightly said, this ~is kind of what~ speaks to the psychology of the decisions we make or money, ~um,~ which is always very interesting.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. And how you put it there where everyone always wants what, you know, ~the, the,~ the one quietly getting on with it, making good money is still wishing they were more visible and they had more engagement. And then the one that's got all the engagement ~wants,~ wants more money. So it's, yeah. It's also, I guess, a little bit that we're, yeah, never quite happy with, with our lot maybe, and we're always looking, you know, as people at what other people have, um, but remembering the substance of it that, you know. I guess all that really matters is what's, what's actually going on internally. Ultimately doesn't it is, is what, um, the reality of it. ~Um,~ but yeah, the, the social pressure~ is,~ [00:15:00] is strong. Mm.
Yommy Ojo: Yep.
Harriet Formby: And then at the same time there's question ~of,~ of metrics. So businesses love to chase the big numbers like we've just said. ~Um,~ but those don't always show what's going on. So the big revenue, you know, the big ones that we hear often are the 20 K months, 30 K months, you know, big multimillion revenues and all that stuff.
Um. What do you think ~we should actually,~ as founders, we should actually pay more attention to in terms of financial metrics? So, which financial metrics actually matter? If we're saying some of these are vanity metrics that we've just mentioned, what should we actually take more notice of?
Yommy Ojo: ~Great question. Great question. And~ I genuinely believe it depends. ~Um,~ someone smarter than me once said that. As a founder, you should be focusing on either revenue, profitability, growing in market size, like you know, you should really have one of these [00:16:00] goals. Now, I actually believe what is forgotten about a lot of times or isn't really considered is retention, because retention is the biggest leading indicator of growth and.
If you are acquiring customers continuously, but customers are leaving as quick as they come, you'll never be able to grow your business. So retention for me is something that really needs to be thought about in the beginning, middle, and end. It's so important. It's that important. And when it comes to decision making.
Whether it's the start of the financial year or the start of the year, or whenever you and your team, you know, whenever business owners and their team get together and make these decisions, I feel like there are a few other metrics that [00:17:00] make sense for owners to keep their eyes on. Right? And these are things like, what is the cost of acquiring a customer?
Investors like to see this. Investors want to know that. You as the owner of the business, have a handle on what it costs to acquire a customer and also other things like what is the lifetime value ~of the,~ of the customer, because then that can give a really good barometer for what you should spend to acquire that customer.
And also looking at the average value of a customer, because then that could inform, actually, are your sales team spending. Most of their time chasing the little fish or the big wins that albeit, even though they might have a longer sell cycle, will help you get to your goals. And we all find that the customers that pay more tend to be better clients, but tend to be better customers.
So [00:18:00] these are a few things that I, I would say many businesses can think about. Invariably, it depends on your business. And what stage you're in.
Harriet Formby: ~Yeah. And~ I like what you mentioned there about, um, you know, the, the life. 'cause I think sometimes we forget, and I know that it's, it is said a lot that it's. It is cheaper to keep selling to your existing customer than always to get a new customer. ~It's always, you know,~ if you can create loyalty and a good service or ~you know,~ an offering that people stick around for, ~that's,~ that's much more lucrative than. Actually having to replace customers all the time, which I know as a consumer gets frustrating because often, especially with like B2C world, it's al there's always deals for new customers and it's like they don't care as much about the existing. Sometimes feels like some, some services don't care about their existing [00:19:00] customers and that always feels quite wrong because I know from a financial point of view that actually.
Retention is important and there's so much, ~you know,~ placed on acquiring new customers sometimes in certain industries that it just seems silly sometimes. ~I dunno if you've got a view on that.~
Yommy Ojo: Yep, yep, yep. Thank you. And I agree with that because that is so frustrating. I've seen, like, similar to what you're saying, I've seen one of the best sales focused founders I had the, ~for~ fortune of working with, he would say there's so much money in his CRM in his business. ~He,~ he thought of every person as a ~potential custom,~ potential customer, and he thought of his existing customers as customers.
He could help. Expanding their journey and it's so interesting how many times this isn't really thought of. And a lot of, say like the basic mistakes we can make is to think about [00:20:00] acquisition and acquiring new customers, but forgetting that a lot of that time you are having to get past the trust that you need to build in the beginning, whereas your existing customers.
As long as you delight them, as long as you stay front of mind and as long as you balance that ratio of delivering more value once they become your customer before you ask for the next ask. There's so much money on the table if you just speak to people at the right time with the right context and maintain that genuine relationship.
So I couldn't agree more with what you said.
Harriet Formby: Yeah, and ~it's not always, you know,~ I guess it, ~the,~ the reason that it happens maybe is it's not, it always seems more exciting to, to maybe put out an offer for grabbing, you know, the next handful of new customers than it does to kind of do the hard work of like maybe checking that your existing customers are happy and like maybe taking their feedback on [00:21:00] board and, um, you know.
Keeping in touch with them, but I guess it doesn't have to be, if you've got the right systems in place, it doesn't have to be difficult.
Yommy Ojo: Yeah, absolutely.
Harriet Formby: So we've talked a bit about that. You know, there's this. Temptation in business to always be pushing harder to want more, to look over your shoulder at what other people are doing. And ~um, you know,~ it's, I guess in the extent, ~you know,~ you could say it's human nature to, to be competitive, but is it healthy in the sort of business ecosystem?
Um, don't know. So do you think. It is healthy to lean into that ambition for founders and maybe is there a balance then between ambition, chasing kind of growth capital and trying to be sustainable in in the mix as well?
Yommy Ojo: Yeah,~ I, I believe that's a really good question because~ the way I ~sort of~ think about it is [00:22:00] what game are you playing now? I genuinely love. This principle from Naval Ravikant, um, and Naval Ravikant, . He is the owner of AngelList and they invested in a lot of start founders, and he spoke about this principle of playing long games with long people.
So the way I see it is business is about solving a problem and going on a journey where there's. The possibility of success, the possibility of failure, and who do you play that game with, right? Um, and I believe that is gonna make all the difference. Now, depending on what stage you're in in your business, if it's getting started, it's obviously gonna require a lot more momentum.
And you ask that question about does it make sense to keep that ambition going at, you know, at all costs? And I think that is the [00:23:00] key thing. At what cost? Right? Is it the cost of your employee's mental health? Is it the cost of your family? Because you might be saying, oh, I'm working this hard to, you know, to provide these things for my family, my wife and the kids.
But if you end up losing your wife in the process or not having a really good relationship with your kids, was it worth it at all? And. I really feel like it, it depends, and you, you know, one needs to be cognizant of what they're sacrificing in the process. And another thing when we're talking about cost is opportunity costs.
Like what, what could you be doing instead that, you know, the, the world or the market. Once from you and just being able to make that decision [00:24:00] and ultimately, um, no one can decide but you. But I know a lot of the best business owners that I've been speaking with and I've learned from have really good ~adv~ advice advisors.
They have people upstairs, people that are not stuck in the business. And I, and I guess that's why we have governance right in, in this aspect. People that can see things that you are not necessarily seeing when you are stuck in the ebbs and flows of your business.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. Yeah. So I really love that, ~that you Yes. That~ reminder that, ~um, you can be,~ yeah, you can be busy, but is it necessarily worth it? ~You know,~ what's the cost to, ~you know, you,~ you personally, your family, the people around you and all that. And, ~um,~ the point you made there about. Yeah, having almost like advisors around you.
So could you tell me a little bit more about that? Like what examples have you seen where people have had like good structures around that? Where they're kind of, yeah. Hearing some good perspectives and voices.
Yommy Ojo: I love, I love that question. And one other cost I forgot to mention is your health, but I'm sure [00:25:00] everyone, um, we, we think about that as well. So in regards to advisors. I must say there's, um, a friend of mine, Claudine, um, and I'll never forget this, and when she was early in her journey, she created her own personal board of advisors.
Now, I'm sure we all know if you ask someone to be your mentor, they're gonna freak out. 'cause it's like, I, I, I, I don't even know what the expectations are and I feel like be in any stage of your business, you can actually have those advisors. You can have people that ~are.~ Genuinely care about, you know, you understand a bit about you and wanna see you win, ~um,~ without any competitive overlap, obviously, and people who, whose voice you value for whatever reason that is.
And for me, and, ~um,~ again, like I credited this to Claudine, what I started with was a simple broadcast list on WhatsApp and I would update in a very honest way. [00:26:00] What my wins were, what my lessons were, and what my next steps were to keep myself accountable. And it's quite funny what started as a small list grew slightly, but even without any responses, the processes of ~wr~ writing that down really helped me and shaped me and actually led me to what your previous question was about, which is.
Why am I doing this? You know, what, what direction was. So it was one of the, it was, especially in the early stage, it was one of those times where one of the few times on a regular basis where I would actually zoom out and think about those things. Um, and I'm sure you know, as a CFO yourself accountant, you probably see different levels of governance, and, you know, see what it's like ~on different.~
At different phases of a business, and I just feel like these things can be replicated at an earlier stage, um, for [00:27:00] most businesses, basically. You don't, you don't have to have the formal setup structure or have, have those advisors yet, um, or the people upstairs. You can begin those good practices from very early on.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. Yeah. So what's really interesting though is sometimes we think that if we need. You know, if we're getting advisors or mentors, that that means we've gotta convince a bunch of people to tell us what to do and we are gonna ask them and they're gonna have the solution. But what you are saying actually that can be really valuable ~is,~ is even just the accountability.
And that's a really beautiful practice you have there of kind of, yeah, almost like ~rough, you know,~ it gave you the accountability to ~kind of.~ Tell somebody or the group on WhatsApp, like, what you're doing and what's next. And ~uh,~ yeah. So ~did,~ did people, ~um, was it more like for your own accountability, did people~ ~ chip in as well?~
~I presume they did, like, did they chip in as well and, and kind of, or what,~ were they kind of then helping you with the next steps? Or were they more just kind of like keeping you in that routine where you are always kind of reflecting on what was [00:28:00] going on and like what the next move was?
Yommy Ojo: Yeah, certainly. I mean, I've had different responses from it and I feel like some of the best things that's happened is like having this core support system that's seen me grow and. Sometimes I might ask for something that I'm looking for at at that particular time. It might be, could someone connect me to, you know, I'm looking for this person, or I'm looking to do more content.
I need a photographer. Like it could be anything. Genuinely. What I found is that it allowed people who were in my inner circle who I believe really cared about me to know what I needed help with, or to see the journey, what that I was on, and. Me stay front of mind for them. Whenever I did that update, and actually, ~um,~ one of the people who's in that group has actually opened up about some of the challenges [00:29:00] she was having with the stage of her business and where she's at, and that's led to a much stronger relationship.
And we're actually meeting in a couple weeks time. We found out that there's, um. We have some similarities in, in some areas, which I won't go into any in much detail, and I, and I, and I question myself and I say, would we, would we have this connection if I wasn't sharing so freely in this format? So it's definitely been really valuable.
Harriet Formby: ~That's, so~ that's such a powerful example there~ of of, of, yeah.~ The impact it's had for you ~and,~ and ~I can really see that you. Being, you know, slightly like there,~ there's a tendency sometimes because people, you know, we, we worry about like maybe people stealing our ideas and intellectual property and, ~um,~ there's ~a,~ a sense ~of~ of guarding what you're doing ~and,~ and maybe not telling people.
So actually it shows that being open about the ups and the downs. can lead to more connection, more willingness to help when ~you, you know,~ you say, [00:30:00] oh some, does somebody know somebody here who they can connect me to? People are much more willing to put their hand up and actually that real sense of community where it's sort of two way where people, yeah, people share ~what they're,~ what they're struggling with as well.
So it's, um, I think in the. The way the founder world often works is there can be a lot of secrecy and a willingness to kind of keep the cards close to your chest and. Also, I know sometimes, ~you know,~ from my experience, people don't necessarily like, specifically for like investors, they don't always want to tell them what's going on.
So like when there's problems, they're not necessarily upfront and then there creates friction around trust. But like having those updates. If I was an investor for example, ~that would probably, not that I am for, for people, but um,~ that would give me confidence. I think that like, oh, this person's giving me the updates.
They're telling me the good points, the bad points, and then what they're gonna do about it. Like, that would make me feel really confident and also like, oh, I can actually help 'em then with, with what [00:31:00] they need. So, yeah, really. I really love that and it's something that, you know, hopefully is accessible to a lot of people.
As long as you know some people that you trust and you're willing to say, look, well, you just, you know, simple. Be on the WhatsApp group. I know we've got lots of WhatsApp group in life, but like, yeah, it's not the biggest ask in the world is it to say, can you be in, in the group and just give me some feedback from time to time.
So really love that.
Yommy Ojo: Ab, absolutely. And I feel like, just to touch on what you said, um, just to kind of like go a bit further on what you just said. Yes. Having a broadcast list that you can like broadcast out those updates and it's just easy to do in one go has been massively helpful. On top of that, I feel like in a post COVID era, it just feels like, like you said, that connection's missing and yeah, I, I find that being vulnerable and with the right people, ~um,~ and even in content, a lot of people that create content say that.
[00:32:00] When they have done their most vulnerable content or they've been willing to put their, to be embarrassed a little bit or, 'cause at the end of the day that is the real cost, a little bit of dignity. You find that people lean in so much more, and that seems to work ~for,~ for some reason. Um, I don't know why.
It just seems to work. So, yeah. Um, just, um, giving kudos to what you just said.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think, and, and it comes back to what we were talking about earlier about the kind of, ~you know, the, the,~ the behaviors around kind of wanting. 20, 30 k months is around belonging and the social standing. And again, it's like the connection, isn't it? Ultimately we're, you know, we're humans even when we've got a hat on as like founder, entrepreneur, you know, business leader, whatever, we are still trying to just manage like relationships.
And there's definitely that thing of like when people are showing something vulnerable or it's like. They're telling a story, ~like~ we listen, we [00:33:00] listen a lot closer than if they're saying like, 10 reasons you should buy from me or something. And like we glaze over, like when they're telling something personal, like we all just ~like~ stop and listen.
And it's a great way of getting people's attention ~and, and,~ and bringing people in on that journey. So, yeah.
Yommy Ojo: Mm. Yep. Yep.
Harriet Formby: I wanted to ask you a bit about, I know you've got a lot of experience in in sales and something that I've been puzzling over myself, and is the idea that people don't all make decisions in the same way ~and I.~ So when we've got like ~a jour~ a sales journey or an approach, ~like some~ like to generalize, some buyers maybe want to be ~like~ sold to directly and quickly.
They wanna know what it is, the price, make their decision, move on. You know, buy the thing, get on with it quickly. Other times, people's personalities, they're like more suited to needing time and comparisons and they want like multiple check-ins with the salespeople and [00:34:00] reassurance. So. does that translate to maybe founders who are trying to grow something and maybe this touches on when they're maybe making their first sales higher or bringing in, uh, you know, subcontracting sales.
Like, what do they need to consider about, almost like ~the, the,~ the buyer's journey and their approach to sales, given that maybe. To be successful to sell to certain people might be different or I'd love to know your take on that Essentially.
Yommy Ojo: Yeah, definitely. And I feel like. It definitely depends on the type of products or service you're offering. It depends on the price point as well. And what I would say is, I totally agree with you. Like there is some, not everyone's an emotional buyer. Some people need time. Some people, ~um,~ are more logical.
And um, [00:35:00] one of the best sales people that I worked with as well, he had a framework where. Very early on as he is getting to know people, he would be feeling out and understanding like what their decision making framework was. Um, don't ask me to repeat it, but he had a particular, ~um,~ mechanism. So I feel like those skills are very important, understanding people, listening, having those systems in place so that actually if someone, if you've got someone's email or their phone number and they're not.
Able to make a decision right now. How do you make sure that you can consistently deliver value and follow up so that you're not putting them off and it feels too desperate because the way you go into that cell can also impact, ~um,~ how people feel if they feel like they're being pressured. And then actually they decide, actually, I don't want it anymore.
If it's gonna, you know, you've interrupted me a few times and you're not really getting it, or you haven't really given me time to think. So, I definitely believe it's a art. [00:36:00] I've been fortunate to, to see different approaches. I actually love that aspect of it, seeing how, you know, different people make decisions and I feel like to your point, when you are making your first sales higher, ~um,~ you need to consider like the systems that are gonna be used and ~how,~ how you keep track of that, especially if you've got a lot of leads.
Um, and just being able to determine between. Having a lot of low quality leads and that's gonna, ~you know,~ cost a lot of your sales persons time. They might not make, get the results you want, and that's not good for anyone. And being able to spot someone that's hot and close and make the sale ~when,~ when they're ready and not, you know, not oversaw when the person's ready to buy.
So being able to like look out for those buying signals and make the right decisions.
Harriet Formby: Yeah, that's really, really interesting and ~I,~ I guess it, like you said, it does depend on, ~you know,~ how high ticket the [00:37:00] thing is you're selling. Because if it's a, if it's a low cost thing, I guess you don't want to spend too much time on it. But if it's a high ticket thing that's gonna represent a lot of like recurring revenue for your business, then. It's probably worth ~potentially, you know,~ slowing down if somebody wants to slow down or varying from your script or whatever. To ~um, to, yeah, to,~ to factor that in. Because it is like a psychology, isn't it? Selling I suppose it's a psychology side as well, ~in terms of, very much so.~ In terms of people's like behavior, ~um,~ and responses around it.
And tailoring like your messaging to, ~yeah, to~ that.
Yommy Ojo: Absolutely.
Harriet Formby: And I am really pleased you mentioned systems there, uh, 'cause I'd love to ask you some more about this. So it is common to hear like founders maybe not wanting to get into the system side of things. And I know certainly from the financial systems perspective, it's often the thing that like once maybe you've got investment, it's like, okay, we now need a proper system.
Can you come and help me sort this out because we haven't got one yet [00:38:00] and ~um,~ it's not always the fun thing that people like to do themselves. So I'd love to know from like early stage up to scaling or sort of preparing for investment or having received investment, ~what,~ what does having the right systems actually look like, you know, from your experience of different industries and clients and what you've implemented.
Yommy Ojo: I personally love it, love it, love it. And for me, I find that. The right system is the one that gives you ~the,~ the truth about where your business is in a very centralized way, a way that's easily accessible, but also gives the leadership oversight of the bits that they need to. And it takes time. ~It,~ it takes time to get a really good setup.
So one of the benefits about what I've been able to do is. Work with people and businesses where they are and what stage they [00:39:00] are, and do it in a way that adds value for the team and leadership. And the powerful thing is if you are a business that's looking to ~get,~ go on to get external funding or you know, prepare for an exit. There are things that will make your life so much ~more~ easier for investors if you have those numbers ready, if you're able to get it. And if you can come across very confident when you are questioned on it. I mean, we've all seen The Apprentice, right? Or dragons then and, ~um,~ probably more dragons than, and not knowing your numbers.
When the dragons feel that out, it's almost like attack. So you can win half that battle just by being prepared, just by getting an eye on your numbers. And it doesn't need to be overnight. It could be something, a decision you can make right [00:40:00] now to say, actually we wanna be on top of our numbers. We wanna make sure that we are smarter about our buyer intelligence.
We wanna make sure that. We have an understanding of how much it's costing to acquire these leads or the quality of these leads, or the different segmentations of these leads or the different costs. how much rich are the conversations gonna be with your sales people or external funding, or the people that you're trying to help Understand how your business is performing if you have those numbers.
And it's amazing how many businesses don't have this set up. I was, I was shocked. I was genuinely shocked, Harriet when I saw certain businesses that had been running for years at a certain stage in size and they didn't have these things in place. And it just shows the value of the work that's being done.
Um, you know, the work that we've been able to do for different clients. So, and I'm sure you'd appreciate it as well [00:41:00] from, ~um,~ the way you think about numbers, just to see things in a particular way or just to see that someone has, um. A handle on their numbers. I'm sure you could ~throw,~ throw a couple curve ball questions if you wanted to really suss people out in terms of their numbers.
But, um, I love it and I feel like that brings back full circle my initial experience in banking and what I've been doing with sales systems and growth systems, um, and the financial computing degree. Hopefully you can start to see how this all pieces together. And how it can really shape the trajectory of business can go on when you have a really good understanding of the lifeblood of your business and the indicators that tell you if you are on track and what journey you're going on.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. Yeah, so I,~ yeah, I, I~ totally relate to this because, ~you know, there's,~ there's times where I've been kind of almost frustrated because it's like. If we only knew these things right now, we could make, you know, sometimes you can't [00:42:00] actually make a decision or even have a judgment on something without, you know, the data to back up.
You, you think you know what's going on, but actually, unless you've got the metrics that tell you what's going on, you, it is really difficult to act on it. And so having like real time information that's collecting more than just like your sales figures that you know, your margins and, and like your metrics and things as well.
You can actually monitor it and then you can influence it. And then like sometimes you find things that have gone wrong like six months ago, but you didn't realize, 'cause you didn't have ~the, you know,~ the setup to have the data coming through. ~Um,~ in a way that. You know, makes sense. And I really love you mentioned about, you know, this is where experience in like big institutions, like banks that are very tech, you know, they were very systems driven, is really helpful.
So because you're able to sort of go, well, this is like, obviously not everything in banking is probably brilliantly techy and applicable to [00:43:00] small businesses, but a lot of the systems and the controls and what's measured and like the. Routines of it, where it's kind of like, this is the system we're using as a cycle and this is how we do it, and we've got a method and it's documented and it's scalable.
Like that is so important. And it's only if you've seen it done properly that you can really actually advise on it and implement it, because otherwise you're just kind of guessing what good looks like. But if you've seen what good looks like in a big system, which a lot of smaller businesses are aspiring to be, if they're kind of.
Growing, they're aspiring to scale. You need really good systems like banks have ~to,~ to make it happen.
Yommy Ojo: That's it. Yep.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. And just like a more reflective question I guess to kind of round us off is if, if. Money were a person. What would you like to say to them?
Yommy Ojo: Woohoo. Good question. I [00:44:00] would say to money. Thank you for the journey you've taken me on. ~Thank you for the journey you've taken me on,~ and truly helping me ~to,~ to realize and understand what value means. Because for me, value is what you give to other people, not what you implicitly are. Or feeling valuable.
It's what you do for other people. It's what you give to other people. And that's why I said right at the beginning, value exchange.
Harriet Formby: Yes. Really lovely. Yeah. It's,~ it is that, um, you know,~ we can get so carried away with what value means, but bringing it back to something that feels, you know, tangible and mission driven almost in terms of like, well, what can I do to help other people? Yeah. Really lovely. [00:45:00] Well, thank you so much, Yommy. You've said so many interesting kind of insights and
tips and ideas and really got me thinking.
~Um.~ And I'm sure our listeners will be thinking as well. So I just wanted to pass back to you really just ~to, to, to,~ to tell us ~really~ where we can find you and your business ~and your, and,~ and a bit about, you know, who you work with, ~what,~ what you do, what offers you've got available, ~um,~ so people can follow up with you if they'd like to ~maybe~ work with you.
Yommy Ojo: Yeah, sure. So, uh, I'm a systems and growth marketing partner. I've helped property, business services based businesses, all different types of businesses to grow by building scalable systems. To enable leads, sales and profitability ultimately to fund business growth. Um, very easy to find on LinkedIn with Yommy.
So Yankee, Oscar, Mike, Mike Yankee is my, is Yommy, and then the surname is OJO. So Oscar, [00:46:00] Juliet, Oscar, and anyone who comes from this podcast ~essentially.~ I'm doing a special offer to audit your sales funnel, ~essentially~ completely free of charge. So all you need to do is mention that you came from this podcast, ~um,~ in via email, ~um,~ or a LinkedIn dm, and I will give you a free funnel audit and together we can run your numbers and spit out your profit potential.
And. I can guarantee it would be visualized for you in a way because we've worked in these processes so many times, ~um,~ and we've always delighted our customers with it further than you can imagine. So, ~um,~ thank you very much for, ~um,~ enabling me to offer that Harriet.
Harriet Formby: Wow. That sounds like a, ~yeah.~ Really great opportunity to have your me look through your [00:47:00] sales funnel and find some real golden opportunities there. So I'm sure we'll have, yeah, lots of people interested in taking that up. ~Um.~ Brilliant. Well, thank you. Thank you so much, Yommy. It's been real to speak with you and thank.
Speaker: You've been listening to the Money Story Project podcast with me, Harriet Formby. If you've enjoyed the episode, please follow the show, share it with someone who might want to have a listen, and if you can leave a review. In the show notes, you'll find links to connect with our guests and to learn more about the project itself.
And if you feel cool to share your own money story, you'll find details there on how to be part of a future episode. Until next time, take care and have a great day.
[00:48:00]
Yommy Ojo: ~Thank you.~
