Audio - Money Story Project Podcast with Briony Gunson
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Briony Gunson: [00:00:00] my body was remembering we are talking about the thing that is fundamentally unsafe.
Briony Gunson: If anything, it's probably dangerous.
Briony Gunson: my hands would go cold. I would get easily really, really tearful. I'd feel really, really shaky.
Briony Gunson: but I saw people moving through the world If anything, they were like grounded, confident, Yeah, no big deal.
Briony Gunson: And it was interesting 'cause I thought, "Not everyone else is terrified of money,"
Harriet Formby: A lot of money content will tell you to budget better, be more disciplined, manifest harder, and just hurry up and fix yourself, because apparently you're always the problem to overcome. The Money Story project is where we go deeper and wider into who we are, where we came from, what we've experienced and discovered along the way.
Harriet Formby: I'm your host, Harriet Formby, chartered accountant, fractional CFO, trauma-informed finance coach, [00:01:00] and insatiably curious about the human side of money.
Harriet Formby: today I'm joined by Briony Gunson, who is a mindset coach, breathwork facilitator, and corporate wellbeing trainer based in the UK. Briony helps people move through stress, burnout, and big life transitions by working with both the mind and the body.
Harriet Formby: Her work is trauma-informed and blends practical tools with embodied practices like breathwork, meditation, and cold water therapy. She works one-to-one with clients in the UK and globally, running workshops and retreats around the world, and delivers corporate wellbeing training. After her experiences with burnout and a challenging relationship with money, she's passionate about helping people feel more grounded, resourced, and in control of their lives financially and emotionally.
Harriet Formby: You can find Briony at Brionygunson.com or @Brionygunson [00:02:00] on Instagram. So a big welcome to Briony.
Briony Gunson: Be here.
Harriet Formby: I'm looking forward to our conversation. And just to get us started
Harriet Formby: could you tell us about your early memories around money growing up?
Briony Gunson: I grew up in Hong Kong, and I can remember as a kid, the earliest memories I have are around hearing my parents arguing, specifically about money. And as a result of that, like early conditioning, those like early childhood experiences,
Briony Gunson: I guess it's no big surprise then that, the first lessons I heard about money is it's pretty terrifying.
Briony Gunson: it is very scary and very stressful. So bless my parents, that was like a major challenge for them in their relationship, and [00:03:00] that was something that, I was exposed a lot to.
Briony Gunson: from those, arguments, there is definitely trouble brewing and, as I got older, sort of in my sort of 11, 12-year-old self, like I could hear from my parents more and more about, stories of things going majorly wrong, and particularly with my dad's work. And so there was this almost constant threat of going majorly financially wrong, which as a kid, right, you don't really understand or insofar as you can understand and make sense of the world.
Briony Gunson: I could obviously feel and sense my parents' stress, and my body picked up on a lot of their stress as well. my family got into more and more issues through my dad's work, and essentially it all started building into this big, almost like a crescendo where when I was 14, because of some professional projects that my dad was [00:04:00] involved in, there ended up being legal troubles.
Briony Gunson: and when I say some legal troubles, I mean there was court cases involved. A- apparently there was coverage in the newspaper, my mum kind of protected me and my siblings from that. and then eventually it all culminated in my dad, even though he ended up being exonerated for what happened, and really, it's hard to get fully to grips with the full thing because it happened over a period of years, and it's quite messy.
Briony Gunson: Ultimately, my dad spent some time, through courts and in jail, and we ended up losing everything. And when I say everything, I mean all of our money, our family home, um, our dogs, our cats, like all my belongings. So it's not an exaggeration to say my family sort of imploded because of those events.
Briony Gunson: and I know that my dad was working really hard to try to stop anything like that from happening, as was my mum. So yeah, as you can [00:05:00] imagine, it was a very stressful few years, but then the beginning, the sort of implosion of that, and the ripple effects, that led us onto like a whole, other set of challenges that then came off the back of that implosion.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. Yeah. what strikes me there is in terms of like trying to keep it together and, for the children almost like keep the signs of like trouble away, it must have been really hard then for you when it came out and your whole like life changed drastically and so many different levels like the security emotionally, you know, so many different things
Harriet Formby: So what happened
Briony Gunson: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, first up, I lost contact with my dad for a few years because he was obviously on his own journey then, professionally and personally trying to sort out a lot. And me, my mum and, my sisters, we all moved to the UK. So in Hong Kong, they don't a- actually have a welfare state. So [00:06:00] if you were homeless, you are homeless.
Briony Gunson: You are, like, out on the streets. So in the UK, I am a recipient of the welfare state, so shout-out to the welfare state. And, we moved to the UK, and initially, I mean, you said about my parents trying to sort of keep it all together. I feel like looking back, and I am talking about the facts here with you, Harriet, like, I've done a lot of work, emotionally and, therapy and coaching around the things that have happened in, in my childhood.
Briony Gunson: And with my parents, as I reflect back on them, with, like, a lot of curiosity and compassion, and this is not sidestepping all of the, you know, the anger and the pain and the, the upset that, that has been there as well, I could see how much they were just trying so hard to make things work.
Briony Gunson: And something that I've learnt, certainly as an adult, is sometimes things are just so far outside of our control. or if you look back over a situation, you can see how it escalated. A bit like Breaking Bad. "How the hell did we [00:07:00] get to this point?" Or I love Wild Wild Country. It's a great documentary, if people haven't seen it, about Osho.
Briony Gunson: And it's the same thing, you see at the end, and you're like, "How the hell did we get here," right? but when you're living through it, you don't think things can get that bad. And I think as a kid, you believe your parents or you hope that things can be fixed, right?
Briony Gunson: Things can get better. you mentioned safety. when you're a kid, I think there can be this perception that your parents can fix anything or your parents can solve problems. but this just felt so much bigger. It's almost like being hit by, like, a huge tidal wave or an earthquake and just being kind of carried along.
Briony Gunson: So that being carried along with, um, moving to the UK, and I know that my mum, she was quite-- uh, I see her almost like, um, in the Chinese zodiac, she's a-- or she was a tiger, and, she's almost like a, a lone tiger, or like a lone wolf. she was the kind of person who would just be-- she's incredibly [00:08:00] self-reliant, like, she's gonna figure it out.
Briony Gunson: She's gonna do it herself. And I feel like she, for whatever reasons, didn't feel like she could reach out for support or didn't want to tell people what was happening. So I learnt from a young age to do an amazing job of hiding that there could be potentially an enormous shit show happening just behind me
Briony Gunson: Like, to pretend that everything is fine, everything is okay, it's all okay. And that was very much a coping strategy. So when we were in the UK, it was like, "Everything's okay. We've just moved here because, you know, the children's schooling," I think was the line. So I've got two sisters.
Briony Gunson: One was old enough to head off to university, and then me and my other sister, we ended up living first in a caravan with my mum. Now, she had sort of said to her family that we were just having a fun jaunt in a caravan . And [00:09:00] as a teenager, it was in some ways, you know, I could kinda let myself go along a bit with that story because I think as a young person, I'm also trying to make it okay, right?
Briony Gunson: I'm trying to just make it okay. And then we ended up in London, and I moved into a bedsit, so one single room with ... It wasn't even a double bed. It was more of like a queen-sized bed for the three of us to live in. And I think we were there in the end for about nine months. So we had, one room, three of us, living in there, and I've got so many memories about that space because it was obviously very challenging being there.
Briony Gunson: And on top of this all, was no longer at school. So I was at a private school, got kicked out because we didn't have any money for any kind of fees, and all the schools in London, were full. Or that was the line we were being told, like, they're just full. Like, my sister managed to find a spot, whereas there just wasn't anywhere.
Briony Gunson: now this is, this is back in the days before [00:10:00] mobile phones
Briony Gunson: or, uh, mobile phones being pervasive like they are now. we didn't have internet. We didn't have a computer. so it was me in this room, 'cause my mum was going off to try to work a lot. My sister was going to school.
Briony Gunson: I remember having some GCSE science books that we'd got from the library, and I was trying to sort of like spend my time, you know, doing some kind of self-study whilst also taking ca- I say taking care of the house. Taking care of the one room that we were in.
Harriet Formby: So you were essentially, like, on your own in the room No school, no internet. Your mum was out working, your sister was at school. It was just you. So it must've been, yeah, really, really tricky. Really, really isolating, and such a contrast to how life was before
Briony Gunson: there was a separate shower, and I'd never come across this before.
Briony Gunson: I remember speaking to some of my [00:11:00] mum's friends, and they said, "Oh, it sounds like you experienced the UK that we grew up in at times," because there was a shower that you had to pay 50p for the hot water. So there wasn't even hot water that we could access without paying for it.
Harriet Formby: Mm.
Harriet Formby: That must have been such a contrast to the lifestyle you had in Hong Kong It must have been such a different world. And that 50p, isn't It's like it's gatekeeping access to hot water
Harriet Formby: I remember, washing is expensive. We didn't have a washing machine, so, like, whenever I'd have a shower, I would almost, save, the washing up, as in the clothes, the laundry, to do when I would have a shower as well. and nowadays, I will say that, as a side note, I bloody love washing machines.
Briony Gunson: I'm, like, so forever grateful for washing machines. Literally the shine, the glory, the delight of using a washing machine. I'm like, "Yes. Amazing." You can get the picture that I'm painting, right? So that it was, like, in the UK as definitions go, and I remember I used to be very resistant to [00:12:00] acknowledging this because it felt, it, I don't know, it felt challenging.
Briony Gunson: but this is, like, extreme poverty. That's the kind of classification of that living standard. And in the summer when it was warmer, I'd sleep on the floor, and when it was colder, we'd all sleep in the bed, 'cause it was a big Georgian house in, a single room. And I remember in terms of money, like, my mum would give me a clear instruction that we had ÂŁ5 a day as our budget for food.
Briony Gunson: So my job was also to try to see if I could, figure out essentially, like, a daily meal plan, like, food for the three of us for ÂŁ5. And I remember sort of relishing that challenge, 'cause it kinda gave me something to do. and actually it did also force me to learn a more, lot more about cooking, and different types of recipes and being creative.
Briony Gunson: Uh, but there's a lot about that time and that experience in particular that left a very deep mark, like, on my nervous system, because it was just such a huge shift from how I had lived. [00:13:00] And the hard thing was I don't think my mum told anyone that's where we were or what was happening.
Briony Gunson: My dad didn't know where we were. And none of this is criticizing either my mum or my dad, it's just acknowledging, like, you know, I don't know what I would do if I was in their situation. but yeah, it was just sort of the pretending everything is fine, which did culminate with eventually my mum had been in contact with the council to discuss emergency housing.
Briony Gunson: And I remember, there was an appointment arranged for someone from the council to come and view our accommodation, like where we were staying, and assess whether we were indeed in need of accommodation and, what could be done around that. And, because this is like 25-plus years ago, um, you know, there's no sort of like t- I didn't have an email or a text or a number to call.
Briony Gunson: And so my mum being my mum was like, "Ooh, I wanna make sure I've got, milk to make the woman a cup of tea. She's due to come any time between, say, like 10:00 and 12:00." And say it was, it'd just gone 10:00. [00:14:00] And I was like, "Mum, it doesn't matter. Scrap the tea. It doesn't matter." And she's like, "No, no, no. I really wanna make sure I can at least make her a cup of tea."
Briony Gunson: And I was like, "For the love of God, Mum, it doesn't matter." Anyway, so my mum also being very determined was like, "No, no." She's like, "It's only, only 10 minutes up the road." As in, like 10 minutes in total. She's like, "I'll nip out, grab some milk, come back." So of course you can see where this is going. This, almost like the second my mum left, um, the lady from the council showed up.
Briony Gunson: So there's me as a 14-year-old thinking, "Oh, crap," like, "I have to answer her questions. I thought she was gonna ask me things I don't know." And I remember showing her around the room, and um, back then I wouldn't have described it as powerful. I'm saying it's powerful as adult me.
Briony Gunson: 'Cause 14-year-old Briony was like, "This is mortifying, and intimidating, and overwhelming." Because she was like, "Show me where you live, you know, and tell me about it." And so I think maybe another reason I remember so much about that is because I had to explain it to someone [00:15:00] else.
Briony Gunson: And I remember trying so hard to make it okay, to like make light of things, or to be like, people co-sleep. People co-sleep. And in other countries, people share rooms with their families, you know?" And I remember trying to sort of make it all seem okay, you know, and, and like it's not a big deal.
Briony Gunson: and I could feel and sense her sort of warmth and her compassion, and almost like her sympathy. And she's like, "Well, where do you sleep?" And I was like, "I sleep on the floor, unless it's really cold, in which case I sleep in their bed, 'cause otherwise it's just too many people." And she's like, "Where do you eat?"
Briony Gunson: And like, "Why aren't you at school?" And, I think seeing our situation through someone else's eyes in like a formal, capacity, you know, in a authority capacity, really was like, oh God. It just, it really-- I guess it's the being seen, right? Like being acknowledged. Um, so yes.
Briony Gunson: that was really the [00:16:00] sort of, um, absolutely extraordinary shift in life circumstances that, Then in terms of money, you know, very real world impacts plus then like so much being focused around money, and then, and safety, you know? And, there's just so much in that, in that, just that part of that experience.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I can feel that there's so much-- Like, you had a lot of responsibility almost around money, because you were responsible for the meals and the budget around the ÂŁ5 a day. And I can see that it's very difficult as well, because you weren't able to go to school, so you were sort of stuck in that room-
Briony Gunson: Mm-hmm.
Harriet Formby: And that must have been tricky.
Harriet Formby: And it's interesting you mentioned around, like, your mum didn't want to tell other people, what was going on. And I guess that can be a sense of like, you know, whether it's she didn't want to acknowledge herself what was going on because it's a coping [00:17:00] mechanism or a lot of it's, I guess it is the stigma that people have around, I don't know, but, whether it'd be met with compassion depends who you're talking about.
Harriet Formby: But, but generally there's this sense, isn't there, of like, what will people think? And that's maybe a society thing. I don't know if you've got a view on like what the reason was
Briony Gunson: Mm.
Briony Gunson: Yeah, so yeah, I've definitely pondered on that quite a bit, and it's part of my own emotional processing around those events. Like for sure at different stages, I felt anger around like, you know, almost I wanted to grab my parents by the shoulders like, "Why didn't you tell people?" You know, "Why didn't you reach out for support?"
Briony Gunson: Um, but I know from my own work, you know, I do a lot of like therapeutic coaching and like work with people around their, emotional trauma, and so I understand like... well, I understand I don't know what it's like to be my parents. I don't know what it felt like to go through those [00:18:00] things and that sometimes in life people don't feel like they can share things.
Briony Gunson: They don't feel like they can talk up about what is hard and challenging. And so a big insight I had a few years ago in reflection about my parents, off the back of a fleeting comment that my dad made, and that fleeting comment was that my dad is the first of four generations of men in his family not to go to war. And my mum and her family also- Were heavily involved in both the First and Second World War.
Briony Gunson: And my mum grew up with uncles that had been in Japanese prisoner of war camps. and so on both sides of my family, and this is why, understanding generational patterns and conditioning is so powerful and can be so valuable, that as far as my mum was concerned, if I really put myself in her shoes, and she was told this, [00:19:00] or this is obviously something that was said with repetition growing up, like, you know, relative to what they went through, like you don't have any problems. Like you've got a roof over your head, you've got food to eat, you've got clothes you can wear, you've got shoes, you know? 'cause like post-war Britain, my mum said, you know, she grew up, you know, where rationing was like still, still a thing and, children in the village that she grew up in, the really poor children didn't have shoes.
Briony Gunson: You know, they had a school they could go to. So as far as like I think some of the older generations were concerned, it was like, "You have no problems," right?
Briony Gunson: And I think that obviously it's all relative for each generation. Although, yes, it is true on one angle, but relative to, you know, experiencing like I can't even imagine how, insanely stressful and devastating and [00:20:00] frightening so much of, what people must go through with war
Briony Gunson: It's like the next generation, they haven't experienced that. Their body doesn't know what that's like. so anyway, so my mum was conditioned to sort of like you don't tell people about your problems. Now, that kind of conditioning can serve us very, very well actually. It can be amazing for just plowing through, for just absolutely cracking on, for being able to turn and face, whatever is challenging and being like, "This isn't a problem."
Briony Gunson: Like, "I can deal with this." Like, just keep going. "I don't have any problems," this sort of, you know, either reframing or disregarding. But the truth is, is that our body remembers, and if there's a situation that is very stressful, that is, triggering an, an intense emotional response, if that isn't properly acknowledged and processed, the emotional charge of that will stay with us.
Briony Gunson: And that's when things can build and build and build, and people end up having meltdowns or like huge, emotional reactions, sometimes to something quite small, 'cause it's nothing to do with the trigger. [00:21:00] It's like all of that legacy charge. So I feel like going back to the questions of, you know, why didn't my parents or just like being like respectfully curious about what they did or d- or didn't do, I feel like Interestingly, if I zoom out to look at the bigger generational picture and landscape of their lives, yeah, they were growing up in an era, you know, boomers, right?
Briony Gunson: An era where there's, like, lots of opportunity. I mean, don't get me wrong, there's still lots of hardship, still lots of challenges, but lots of growth, lots of change, lots of forward motion. And yeah, they could just keep plowing on, So that's one part, the sort of feeling like you can just keep going, you can figure it out yourself, you have no problems.
Briony Gunson: Um, and then I think another thing of it is really the either losing face or just the discomfort of being so vulnerable, or of needing to say, whether it's saying, "Hey, I fucked up," or saying, "Hey, I'm in deep shit," or being like, "This thing is [00:22:00] happening," or, "I feel like everything's out of control," or like, "We're in a really challenging place," or, "We really need support."
Briony Gunson: Whatever, whatever it is, right? and I know for myself on my own journey, my life, I've had to learn that, you know, how to learn to turn to people and say, "I need help." Like, "This is bigger than me," or feeling at that lowest ebb of being like, "I can't, I can't cope," or, "I can't manage," and being like, "That doesn't have to mean, I've failed or that this is an implosion,"
Briony Gunson: And actually by addressing things sooner, where might, the impact of something actually be mitigated. Or afterwards, like, after some big implosion or some major event, either inside or outside of our control, like the after effect, right? A bit like an explosion. It's like if you can't control that, but, like, what's the, what's the care afterwards?
Briony Gunson: What's the rehab afterwards? So yes, both my parents, are no longer here. they've both passed [00:23:00] on, and I kind of... Obviously you can't... It's like shoulda, woulda, coulda. Can't, can't change the past. it is a powerful lesson for me about thinking about asking for help and support, and I know that I've-- I just sort of stay just really curious about what, yeah, again, what they did or didn't do.
Briony Gunson: Um, knowing actually without explicitly asking them, maybe grabbing them by the shoulders. "Why didn't you tell someone?" but to really kind of go, "Hey, I'm not them. I don't know what it's like to be them. I'm gonna trust that they were doing the best they could with the awareness and the resources that they had."
Briony Gunson: Plus we've all got our own conditioning, our own ways in which we hesitate, or we're scared to share, or don't trust that people will be there. so perhaps they just didn't feel like they could in many ways.
Harriet Formby: Yeah, yeah, it's the context of the time, isn't it? And what they'd lived through and what was normal, around the generations before and the, certainly the wartime experiences. And [00:24:00] essentially that means that, you know, they, they did what they probably felt was safest.
Harriet Formby: And you don't know what would've happened, if people would've helped or not. That's the other side of it, is you could tell everyone what's going on and they, they don't, step up. So there's always that risk, isn't there?
Harriet Formby: it's really, yeah, really difficult it's that thing I really like what you said about, If you keep going, that can be a really good mechanism, but there's obviously some things that happen later on when you unpack it or if you don't unpack it that maybe, start to kind of happen if you're not, yeah, aware of it.
Harriet Formby: So at the time then, how did you cope in yourself as like a young girl, managing through and how did you, how did you respond?
Briony Gunson: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. As, kids, right, were always, tuning into our parents to sort of gauge situations, right? Like, is this safe? Is this not safe? Is this fine? is this not fine? And my mum's line was, like, "This is basically fine." Like, "It's tough, but we [00:25:00] are tough, and we've got this."
Briony Gunson: it's like, on one hand, I allowed myself to kinda go with that, but simultaneously, I knew I was really struggling. Like, it was just so hard. And because I wasn't given the space to really honor my emotions, and when I say that, I mean, like, to sort of properly cry out or to have other caregivers or adults to sort of see me or witness or know what was going on.
Briony Gunson: It was so much to kind of hold by myself. so how I coped was work, was work. And I think not, going to school for, like, a good chunk of time, and it all kind of imploded when I was starting year 10 So this is heading into like GCSE field. And once I had, some of those books, I remember just being so glad to have something.
Briony Gunson: And I love libraries. Libraries are like a safe space because librarians are kind in my experience. They are dry and warm. You can [00:26:00] access like so much stuff for free. so once I got into a school, it was very much like just absolutely throwing myself into work. So initially it was like, I'm in a school, it's GCSE time, and the school was amazing 'cause they were like, "You're joining v- at a very unusual time.
Briony Gunson: It's not typical for people to switch in those two years," like switch schools. So I dropped some subjects, took up some subjects, and the teachers were amazing at being like, we're gonna do the best we can to help you pass because Otherwise it's hard." 'Cause like, I don't have enough time basically to fully study certain things.
Briony Gunson: And, so for me, like just focusing on school, I did my GCSEs and then I got a scholarship into a private school. So I went to a state school and then I got a academic scholarship based on my GCSE results into a private school, and that was like almost like a big breath of fresh air. as in like, I did it, like I got through it, and then it was [00:27:00] like, and then the same again, like two years of really intense have to make this work.
Briony Gunson: 'cause I could see that education was the way out. And what's interesting is that, being part of the culture that a lot of my friends and family come from and stuff, people can take education for granted, and it's really hard to see the gifts of what we have when we're just in it all the time.
Briony Gunson: It's a bit like, being a fish in water and being like, "Do you appreciate water?" You're like, "Yeah, sure." You know, take that fish out of water, it has a real sense of the value of that, right? And I feel like education in Hong Kong, the attitude towards education is quite different to the UK
Briony Gunson: culturally it was a bit of a surprise coming to the UK 'cause I always found that, not everyone obviously, um, massively generalizing, but just like I experienced so many people just like basically pissing about at school, like not showing up, like half-assing homework.
Briony Gunson: And I found that really shocking 'cause I was like, "Wow, you're just wasting [00:28:00] your time and the teacher's time. Like, this is your education. This is important." And that's kind of cultural conditioning from Hong Kong, where education and elders are really valued. And when I no longer had access to education, once I was back in, I was like, "Right, I'm making this work."
Briony Gunson: And I could see as well, like, when we moved into the emergency housing, it's been torn down. but there were these sets of flats as part of the South Acton estate in London, which is quite a notorious estate. And the people that I met, I'm also really grateful because I feel like I have had friends and connections with people from all different walks of life.
Briony Gunson: Not only growing up in Asia and moving here, but also really, like, Snakes and Ladders style, you know, kinda going up and down the board, so to speak. and I could see how education, is like a route out of being in challenging places financially and in poverty. I could see [00:29:00] that so clearly.I was like, school, education is my way out."
Briony Gunson: So working hard became my thing, and I was already quite studious, quite geeky, bit of a boffin, I think is the word people use. I love learning, and, as a result of that, often because of where we were staying in the estate and, I'd have to walk up, a piss-soaked stairwell to get to my flat, like, where I lived, right?
Briony Gunson: And we had drug dealer neighbors who I remember, my mum specifically saying, "It's kinda handy having them at the end of the corridor because at least we know no one's gonna, like, cause problems at our end." so I didn't like going home. and if I could avoid going back, I would, but it was rare for me to, to be able to do that.
Briony Gunson: So I stayed at the library after school, or during lunch breaks at school. When I was at the state school, I would stay inside if I could. but that was mainly 'cause I was being bullied, like, in the playground. But I think at this point I was like, "There is so much major shit I've got going on, I really don't [00:30:00] care."
Briony Gunson: It was almost, like, bit like water off a duck's back 'cause you're just like, "Dude, I just... Like, I have nothing in me right now." Like, "You can't get to me because there's just nothing here."
Briony Gunson:
Briony Gunson: So how I got through it was working hard. and I will say that I am very proud of younger Briony because, for my GCSE results, I got, like, the highest scores for a girl in that year group.
Briony Gunson: which it was only, like, as an adult a bit later, 'cause I kind of was like, "Okay, next. Right, next." Just trying to, like... It feels like climbing out of the big hole, basically. It felt like I was like I'd hit a certain plateau, bit more stability. "Right, okay, take a deep breath. Everyone all good? Great. Let's keep going."
Harriet Formby: Yeah.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. It's hard enough anyway, but given that you missed school and you had all that going on, it's even, more impressive, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing.
Harriet Formby: I can see you really threw yourself into studying. Like, the education [00:31:00] thing I guess it was one of the few things you could kind of control and hold onto, it was like a lifeline that you could use to kind of influence the outcomes
Briony Gunson: I was kind of astounded, but I feel like this speaks to the value of hard work, right? 'Cause I was so singularly focused of, like, "I have to get out of this, and this is my way out."
Briony Gunson: So yeah. So it's if you want it hard enough, all sorts of things are possible.
Harriet Formby: you mentioned as well in terms of, the generational patterns and, that your dad He wasn't with you at the time when you were, living in the flat together. And you reconnected later on, what happened in terms of that sort of reconnection?
Briony Gunson: Yeah. Yeah. So because of all the challenges my dad was facing, like, we left Hong Kong, and then my dad stayed, and he also lost everything. And, we did stay in touch a little bit over [00:32:00] the sort of four years from when I was age 14 to 18. I think I didn't see him for about two years. And again, p- putting in the context of, like, we didn't live in this connected age that we are now, right?
Briony Gunson: So, um, it wasn't as easy to get hold of people if you didn't have someone's number or address. and we weren't really using email, or we didn't really have access to the internet in the places we were at. So yeah, me and my dad lost touch a bit. But then I think really the stress of everything that happened, and there's, there's other things that unfolded in that time.
Briony Gunson: There's-- the stress of all of that was just kind of too great. Like, a few other things happened, but it just reached a point where it was just too much. So I stepped away from being in contact with my dad, and it was really with the intention of protecting myself, like I, I almost felt like I couldn't, couldn't cope with that sort of, I think, being in touch and all of what had happened, and then some.
Briony Gunson: It was just [00:33:00] too great to kind of like sit with all of that. And then it wasn't until, I was in my sort of early 30s that very gradually... I'd sort of tried here and there a little bit, but I was so scared of getting hurt, that I, I sort of was very skittish almost, like very frightened to sort of try to connect.
Briony Gunson: And it was when I was in my, yeah, sort of like early 30s that I'm more just as part of my own healing journey. And when I say healing journey, I mean, like, really starting to process a lot of the- Of the unprocessed, unacknowledged, unaddressed stress, tension, drama, pain from that period, I realized one of the things that was hurting me most was being away from my dad.
Harriet Formby: Hmm.
Briony Gunson: And it was very, very powerful to, to recognize that and also then at this point, you know, having my own lived experience, instead of just being in this place of, like, blame [00:34:00] or, you know, this person hurt me, and pushing away, it was like, look, shit happens in life. really challenging, sometimes awful, horrible things happen to, quote-unquote, "good people," right?
Briony Gunson: Shit happens in life. And as adults, what if, again, as I said earlier, what if we're all just trying to do the best we can? What if sometimes there's things that are way bigger than us? And so I, as I started to re- to reflect on my dad and me and, and me as an adult, and I thought, like, you know, "Who, who, who is he?"
Briony Gunson: And I was less bothered in the end about what really happened because I couldn't change it, and I was more curious about, what would it be like to approach him as an adult, and to just show up as me and to practice accepting him, just as he is, you know? Not focusing on all the things that didn't happen, or all the ways he didn't show up, or all the ways he was or [00:35:00] whatever.
Briony Gunson: It's like, can I just show up as adult me? And to be curious about who he is, and to release expectations that this needs to go well. To release expectations that we need to have this, like, beautiful, lovely relationship. to release expectations about whatever it's gonna be.
Briony Gunson: I both could feel, like, the emotional pain I was in. It was worth leaning in just so that even if it didn't go well, I would know that I had tried. and not from a place of, like, then proving, like, "See? I knew it. I knew it," like, you know? But mo- more like I'm gonna be, like, just I can show up as an adult, and I know that, it's okay.
Briony Gunson: If I get hurt, it's okay. ultimately, even if it's not okay, I'll be okay. And so it's with that willingness, that I leaned in. And I, was also reflecting on, rather than being so stuck in my own [00:36:00] stories of my own victimhood or my own pain or, like, what happened to me and, you know, all of that, there is, a powerful, bit in a book by the author Glennon Doyle And the book's called Untamed.
Briony Gunson: And in that book she's talking about families and having the metaphor of your family being like, passengers in an airplane, and that occasionally in life we're gonna hit turbulence, and the adults are like the air stewards in the plane, and, the children as the passengers are looking to the air stewards like, "Is everything okay?"
Briony Gunson: and when I read that, Glennon Doyle was talking about, it might feel like the plane is gonna crash, but it's just turbulence. And when I read that I rem- I remember just putting the book down and I was like, "The fucking plane crashed." Like, the plane I was in crashed.
Briony Gunson: We'd been experiencing turbulence for years. It crashed.
Harriet Formby: It crashed, yeah.
Harriet Formby: It wasn't like a bit of a wobble This was like a full-on plane crash [00:37:00] and nothing was the same again. And what's striking is, like a real plane crash, you can't hide that, can you? It's like everywhere we see it, we know it's happened. But this crash, happened in a more hidden way.
Harriet Formby: It's like nobody knew, and that must have been strange to kind of have that realization that, yeah, this is a big thing. Like this is a big thing
Briony Gunson: Yeah. And it was actually really powerful for me to be like, "It crashed. It crashed." it's like we've kind of all been walking wounded, it feels like since. And I just thought like, "What about my dad?" "Is he okay?" You know? "Is he all right?"
Briony Gunson: So can I see past my own pain and hurt for like one minute and try to look across at my dad and be like, "Are you okay?" You know? and genuinely to, to sort of be curious about what, what was his journey? What did he experience? Like, what happened to him? And, so when we [00:38:00] reconnected, it ended up being the most glorious thing I could have possibly, I like get emotional now just thinking about it, because it just went so well.
Harriet Formby: amazing.
Briony Gunson: yeah. It went so well, and like it was really incredible and we, formed a really beautiful relationship. And, in the end everything was so worth it,
Briony Gunson:
Briony Gunson: sometimes I get curious, and I've seen people talk about this, of like, are we in the evil timeline as like a people?
Briony Gunson: Have we somehow clicked into like the drama timeline? there's these things happening globally, we're like, "Are we sure this should be happening?" and for me, rather than thinking like, "This shouldn't have happened. My life should've t- been another way," I'm like, "What if in some ways, even i- if I can't see it right now, and it doesn't s- feel like it sometimes, what if this is actually like the best [00:39:00] timeline in some ways?"
Briony Gunson: And the quality of me and my dad's relationship was so amazing, and I think because I met him as an adult, and because I processed so much of my own stuff, my own pain, my own stress around things, I could show up like cleanly You know, rather than showing up and getting, super triggered by things or, wanting to kind of get my own back or be like, "But you don't understand," or, "You weren't there," or...
Briony Gunson: Like, I just showed up as my full-ass adult self, and it was amazing. And it just happened organically. Like, I, I came to him with no expectation, no pressure to share. "He doesn't have to tell me what happened." And, you know, just organically over time as we spent more time together, he shared so much more with me.
Briony Gunson: And, it was like a hole in my chest that I didn't realize was there until I was with him, and then it was like, "Oh." I could feel it was like a missing piece of the puzzle. So yeah, I [00:40:00] feel like me and my dad, it's one of the things I'm most proud of in my life that I've done is, is reconnecting with him.
Briony Gunson: I know it's not always possible for a lot of people. and I for sure was not expecting... Like, it's just turned out in the most glorious way. yeah, so I'm very, so fucking grateful for that. 'Cause if anything, it's a huge gift after all of what's been so hard. Like, we've been a huge gift to each other.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. And it's almost, kind of brings it round full circle then, doesn't it,
Briony Gunson: Mm.
Harriet Formby: it seems like the real realization that you've had in terms of like, we're all affected by this, you know? and it's only when you're older, I guess, that you can even start to maybe time has to pass probably to be even in a position to do that.
Harriet Formby: And of, like you said, not everybody is gonna be able to, but for you, it's been really, really powerful. Yeah. Yeah. Um, incredible.
Harriet Formby: So in terms of money and money relationship, gosh, [00:41:00] obviously there's gonna be so much that has impacted money relationship this is the whole thing really is it's what we've lived through, it's what we've experienced, it's our, background that really shapes relationship with money.
Harriet Formby: how has that looked for you what impact have you noticed this having with your relationship with money and I know you've done a lot of work on sort of healing that, so what does that look like in terms of, the impact and then the sort of healing
Briony Gunson: definitely. Yeah, I've got a huge smile on my face, 'cause my God, it's just like I feel like in this lifetime, the universe is like- We're gonna have money. Money is gonna be one of your big, big, big things. but isn't that the same for all of us in a greater or lesser extent, I guess. Um, yeah, my God, so much around money.
Briony Gunson: So I feel like a lot clicked for me when two things. One, when I was working with a coach, a business coach, and I was expressing to her some of my fears. Like, I was like, as I was practicing selling more of my own business, so working for myself as a [00:42:00] coach, and she... I was expressing to her, I think it was just in a voice note, I was kind of sharing, I was quite emotional, and I was expressing that I was afraid.
Briony Gunson: And then she was asking me a few more questions, you know, like, "Why are you afraid?" Like, "What's really here?" And I kind of shared... I didn't, I didn't share lots, because obviously, I mean, it's, it's a big, big chunky story, right? So I, I kind of just peppered a few details, and she was like, "Briony, this is not normal money stuff.
Briony Gunson: This is not like a normal money fear." She's like, "I work with people all the time who are frightened and anxious and worried about money." She's like, "Babe, this is completely different ballgame. This is big. This is really big."
Briony Gunson: And when she said that, I was like, "Huh." Because obviously I knew personally how much things growing up had affected me, but I think because a lot of it wasn't acknowledged, and a lot of it was kind of sidestepped.
Briony Gunson: Yes, some people did know what happened. Yes, some people did come along [00:43:00] the journey in terms of witnessing us. But for the large part, people didn't know. and so when this coach said that, it both felt validating, but it also felt quite scary, 'cause then it was like, "Oh God, am I so broken around money?"
Briony Gunson: because really my body remembered so much, whether it's from my earliest memories of being, you know, like a little kid hearing my parents arguing, or whether it's like, actually then witnessing conversations again and again, and then the metaphorical plane crashing. So my body, to put it into context, if I was ever needing to have bigger conversations around, say, if it's like, chunks of money to do with like, sending deposits for houses or like any kind of bigger expenditure or thinking about credit cards or moving money, I would get really, really freaked out.
Briony Gunson: Like, my hands would go super cold. I would get easily really, really, really tearful. I'd feel really, really, really shaky. Now- [00:44:00] I didn't have the sort of context for this growing up or in my teens and 20s, but now as a breath worker, one of the things I do, understanding the science of the nervous system, essentially my body was remembering we are talking about the thing that is fundamentally unsafe.
Briony Gunson: If anything, it's probably dangerous. And so my body my animal body is reacting in the moment like, "Oh, God, there's the unsafe thing." So like shaking and trembling, feeling really, scared, nervous, anxious. And over the years, like I kind of, got a handle on myself more and more in terms of practicing grounding, and it was really in long-term relationships, just needing to be really honest with the other person in terms of being like, "I find this so terrifying."
Briony Gunson: And it was interesting 'cause I thought, "Not everyone else is terrified of money," but some people are. I... I saw people moving through the world who were like, If anything, they were like grounded, confident, you know? Yeah, no big deal. And [00:45:00] I remember speaking to one of my sisters because she was going through the process of buying a house, and I asked her because I could tell she was quite stressed, and I said to her, 'cause I was curious what was really going on for her, and I said, "What is it that you're really worried about?
Briony Gunson: 'Cause I can see you're stressed." And obviously on the surface we think house buying is stressful and, like, as a sort of pretty blanket bog standard assumption. And she was like, "I'm scared it'll all end up being fraudulent, the money will all fall through, that I will send this money to someone and it will all disappear."
Briony Gunson: And then I sort of lovingly pointed out, I was like, "What's interesting is I know for a fact there'll be lots of people that w- that won't even feature as a thought." Like, All of us are projecting out, you know, often what our beliefs are, what our lived experience is. So it was powerful to watch her go through that process and being so scared,
Briony Gunson: And I, I [00:46:00] didn't wanna sort of be too on the nose and be like, "Hey, that's all of our historical childhood trauma," you know? But I was like just gently being like, "Do you think other people also feel that or maybe," you know, "is there something else there?" So my body has felt extremely afraid in the past,
Briony Gunson: I'm really good now at working with my nervous system and being really on it with money. So I've got really clear processes and I'm, like, super engaged with money. but I've had to train myself, like, with repetition, and if I feel like I've hit a bit of a tipping point for whatever reason- And I'm starting to get really, really wobbly.
Briony Gunson: I just need to let myself have a big cry. I'm a very emotional human. Let myself have a big cry, have a big meltdown about it. Don't judge myself. Don't be like, "Oh my God, you're an adult. Like, get a grip." it's [00:47:00] okay. It's okay. This has been a source of, major, major trauma for me. So just let myself have a big cry, rest, ground.
Briony Gunson: Do I need to take action now, or can I do it tomorrow? Is there another adult that I can say, "Hey, I'm doing this action step. Please, could you watch me? Or can we do it together?" You know, to have that, groundedness, that co-regulation of, another safe human who's not gonna judge me or think I'm being silly or dramatic, who's just gonna be like, "Sure.
Briony Gunson: Let's do it together." So yeah, bless my body. it's still learning that money gets to be safe because the fundamental, almost like conditioning that was laid down early on is "Money's not safe. Money's not safe." So I continue to practice. and it's incredible to see how external real world results, mirror where I'm at internally.
Briony Gunson: So as long as I stay grounded, centered, and engaged with money, then I feel like, I'm teaching my body this is safe, and we can [00:48:00] retrain ourselves. we're not a fixed point. we've got, neuroplasticity. The mind can be rewired. our animal body, our nervous system can be retrained.
Briony Gunson: So that's why I love mindset work. That's why I love breathwork and nervous system work because for me, it really fundamentally can create meaningful, profound change. but yeah, I've done a lot of crying about money.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. And I think what's striking there is it's a physical response, and that's where it can be difficult because it's not just thoughts, it's actual feelings and it's actual, symptoms and actions in the body, and that's where you know it. That's where you know it's, like, powerful stuff because it's triggered from the memories and your body learning that there's danger and telling you to respond.
Harriet Formby: And it's no wonder that you work in the field that you do now, because it's almost like mastering that is, is then key, isn't it? Because you can really spiral if you don't [00:49:00] have, like, techniques and ways of managing that and sort of knowing, "Okay, I'm feeling this response. This is valid because of what I've been through, but also, like, I can process through it."
Harriet Formby: because you don't want to be stuck ultimately, do you, in those cycles where you can't interact with money. That's where it gets really difficult. It's valid that there's these emotions coming up, but you don't wanna be sort of trapped in that.
Harriet Formby: And it's interesting that there was that realization, like you said, with the business coach saying like, "This is serious money stuff you've got going on. There's, like, serious trauma here." we're all so different in terms of, what we've understood and what we've been through and, or how we respond.
Harriet Formby: But, stuff like this it's such a big thing that it's like no wonder that it sort of lives, in the body And especially as, like, you were reflecting on your sister as well has had similar responses.
Harriet Formby: if we touch a bit more on the work that you do now as a coach, does money stuff come up in [00:50:00] that?
Harriet Formby: And, what kind of patterns are you seeing around money with women that you're working with,
Briony Gunson: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm, yes, definitely. And, and I recognize with talking about how I am with money, I kind of, you know, skipped over the fact that certainly in my 20s, And this is a pattern I also see in some clients where it was like money comes in, great, how quickly can I spend it?
Briony Gunson: Because if it's not safe, we don't want it here. That's right. Get rid of it somehow. so when I was younger, although I was good at saving for my pension, I almost would be like, "Ah!" Like, money comes in, like, "Ugh, how quickly can I, like, frivolously sort of spend it?" And it would be easy to judge that behavior, you know, in terms of, yeah, either being indulgent or careless or irresponsible or immature.
Briony Gunson: and I feel like a lot of the work I do with my coaching clients one-to-one and, and breathwork clients is really just, helping understand the historical context insofar as people want to share. You know, really trusting in what relevant context [00:51:00] comes up in, in our discussions and- For me, I am curious about how things are linked.
Briony Gunson: And even though we're talking about business, like in my corporate career, I saw how we stripped out emotions. we were allowed to be a little bit annoyed or pissed off, or celebratory and happy, but that's it. And almost to be professional would be to strip away emotions, right? Because the link I saw was to be emotions is to be, feminine, and to be feminine is to be weak.
Briony Gunson: So no emotions, thank you very much. And when I'm working with people I'll just be there asking questions, like looking to try to understand, but really giving full permission to just no filter, no editing, no need to understand, no need to analyze or judge or even reframe or downplay.
Briony Gunson: Like, just to gently be like, "Just, j- just share. Whatever's here. what are your beliefs about money?" or, "Why are you feeling afraid about selling?" Or, "What's really coming up for you when you [00:52:00] think about, public speaking?" For example. And just to take time and to not rush those inquiries, and that's because it's easy to gloss over deeper insights and just keep talking. And we want to give space for the subconscious mind to start to open up. And then people will just naturally start to reflect. They'll start to look back, and they'll start to make the links themselves. and it becomes so beautiful in many ways because just like I did, they'll start to have this deeper context for why they're doing what they're doing.
Briony Gunson: So rather than asking themselves like, "Oh, my God," like, "What's wrong with you? Why are you doing that?" Like shaming and attacking certain behaviors that aren't that healthy or useful, they can start to be like, "Why am I doing that?" with a lot of compassion I always say a bit like a scientist.
Briony Gunson: Like, "What, why am I doing that?" you know, just digging around. if we just release the judgment if this is [00:53:00] bad or wrong or that we're stupid or incompetent or whatever it is, just like park that for a minute, those parts of us, and just really get curious. Like, "What happened, for you then?"
Briony Gunson: Or, or, or, "What was that?" So the approach, although I'm not a therapist, I'm a trauma-informed facilitator, a lot of the work I do is like deeply therapeutic. And patterns I see with clients are, where the fear they'll, they will be feeling or like the block that's there, it always relates back to some previous time.
Briony Gunson: Their body remembers something, orthey learned something about the world. They formed a belief about themselves or money or business or whatever it is, and that's what's coming up. So- We can try and push past that and sometimes progress can be made, but sooner or later that is gonna come right back up again and like an elastic band, we might feel like we're making progress and then we just snap back to where we were.
Harriet Formby: Yes, because it's been, like, stored in the body. Have you got any particular examples of, [00:54:00] like, where you've seen this play out?
Briony Gunson: examples that come to mind are where like, clients have been afraid to have a successful business because they saw when they were growing up their dad spent all their time in the business and, basically felt like he ignored the family,
Briony Gunson: right?
Briony Gunson: so ther- for them, they've equated in a successful business with basically abandoning your family. So that's like an example of one belief. Another one and this is a very like nuanced example, is I was working with a client about, looking how we could increase her monthly income, and there were some very obvious quick wins.
Briony Gunson: But the thing that she was getting hung up on is that she was scared she was gonna hit the VAT threshold. And I was a bit like, "Well, what a great problem to have. Let's cross that bridge when we come to it." but then I could feel like there was something else still there, right? So instead of just pushing past that and going, "No, well, let's come up with a plan," we digged it into, in more detail and then it turns out she witnessed someone growing up lose their [00:55:00] house the government reclaimed their house because they didn't keep up with their VAT payments. So it's like a very specific example, right? So but she didn't consciously remember that, but her body did,
Briony Gunson: right?
Harriet Formby: there's that trigger around VAT. It wasn't just like, "Oh, there's some paperwork to do, and I might have to manage my money differently." It was like, "Something really bad happened around VAT and my body remembers."
Briony Gunson:
Briony Gunson: another example, this is actually a very common one that I see that I've also been trying to work with myself of people feeling shame about receiving money or people feeling shame or guilt about doing well financially. I've seen quite a lot of women who have businesses that are flourishing and they want to hide that because they either feel like people will take from them, so if they start to be seen to be financially successful, other people will feel like they can lay claim to that or draw from them.[00:56:00]
Briony Gunson: Or And this for me always feels really sad, especially as women, because we've come so far. But when it comes to like gender equality and money, there's still so far to go. Women can end up feeling guilty or bad for for just like doing well, for whether it's like receiving an inheritance or like some other windfall or just like smashing it in their business.
Briony Gunson: there's a part of them that feels like, "Who are you to have this? Who are you to do this?" So they'll feel in some way like it's incongruous with their self-image or their identity, and they may have a story then that like they're incompetent or they're not trustworthy, or there's literally like a teenage part of them coming up who got shamed in front of everyone at maths class or something, and they're remembering that and they're like, "I can't do this," like, "I'm not this type of person."
Briony Gunson: it's fascinating to consider the ways in which we may feel like we don't allow ourselves, like it's a worthiness piece or a safety piece. And for me it's [00:57:00] like I travel a lot and, I love learning from people in different parts of the world, and it's like so many of us have so much privilege, but I'm so tired of that being tainted with so much like guilt and shame.
Briony Gunson: You know, like, "You're really privileged," that, "You should be grateful." It's like, what if we just go like, "Oh my God," like, "I'm so privileged. How can I really rock my privilege? How can I really give back? How can I really serve? What am I gonna do with the gift of this lifetime?" Rather than go, "Oh," you know, not, not to, be disparaging, right, but just more to like, let's practice owning it, owning it, like really holding it, and learning how to be with that power or that fire or that privilege, rather than going "Oh, I don't think I can do it," like, "It's too much."
Briony Gunson: I hear you, and how can we expand ourselves to be like, "I'm allowed this, and the women before me didn't come this far just for me to get this far." what can I do to continue to further things along?
Harriet Formby: And that's [00:58:00] where it's just so important to do that work, isn't it? Of the inquiry into why is this coming up? Because if you don't, you can't necessarily move beyond that fear and shame and worry around it. And just like you said, making the most of what you've got.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. The opportunities. Yeah.
Briony Gunson: And another thing I notice sometimes is people feeling disloyal to their roots. So if people are starting to, develop a strong financial, success really, and they're like investing and, they're doing things that they may be the first person in their whole family, like generationally, to be doing sometimes this story of who do you think you are?
Briony Gunson: And you're being disloyal, you're abandoning who you are. this is not who you are. And it is important to remember that we want to stay curious about who we are, and money is a resource, money is an enabler. we do want to be discerning about our relationship to money and how much we glorify it and idealize it.
Briony Gunson: One of my mentors who would say, "Make sure that you [00:59:00] love people and use money, not the other way around."
Harriet Formby: think that's such a powerful reframe, isn't it? Having an intentional relationship with money rather than a kind of highly charged emotional one that's running on autopilot.
Harriet Formby: Because money itself is neutral. It's a tool. It's not good or bad. It's what we do with it, what we use it for, and what we build with it that matters.
Briony Gunson: So we need to be clear on what's important and see money as an enabler to help us get to where we wanna go, rather than, get so money focused we end up, abandoning what really matters.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. Yeah. It's that perspective on it, isn't it? And the empowerment of money is not your identity. And it can be really tricky this with specifically the coaching industry with the manifestation conversations out there there's this sort of narrative you know, sometimes preying on the the discomfort we have with working through our money stuff to be more abundant.
Harriet Formby: do you have any thoughts around the kind of [01:00:00] manifestation, content and narratives out there?
Briony Gunson: Yes. Yeah, definitely. I've been someone who's dived deep into, especially as part of mindset work, firstly, the mind is incredibly powerful and, I also use things like affirmations and mantras to help with the rewiring and, visioning.
Briony Gunson: to practice imagining myself doing certain things, and that's really important because we have the negativity bias, So our brains are hardwired to notice what is dangerous or off or risky because we're the offsprings of survivors. Like everyone who came before us was damn good at noticing what's not going too well. So we need to consciously practice, focusing on what is going good and like focusing on gratitude and highlighting our wins and celebrating. I'm really big on acts of celebration to help retrain our body. "Oh, success gets to be safe," or, me taking this action or getting this new client, "Yay."
Briony Gunson: instead [01:01:00] of, being in my head visualizing all the ways in which it could go wrong, it's like, "How can it go right?" So there's definitely a lot of, value and power in teachings connected to manifestation And then something else I also noticed is that I feel like conversations around this can be very ungrounded.
Briony Gunson: And what I mean by that is something that I've been affirming for a number of years is financial hygiene is sexy. Oh, yeah. Financial hygiene is hot. Because I used to be like, "Ugh, finances are kind of dull and boring." but I'm like, "No." I'm on it with my finances. Financial hygiene is sexy.
Harriet Formby: Yes. Yes, totally. And Like, it doesn't have to be dull and boring. There's ways to engage with finance that work for you and your brain and the way you see the world.
Harriet Formby: And behind the scenes, the people that are, most successful, for want of a better word, they've got the habits, the structures in place. They're doing the reviews. They're looking at the numbers. They're being curious.
Briony Gunson: They may have help with this as well, of course. [01:02:00] But Yeah, financial hygiene has got a bad name, but it's something that is, so powerful. And, I feel like what I've witnessed, and obviously it's a manifestation as a topic and there's gonna be God knows how many teachers out there, right? So I appreciate it's not fair to generalize. What I have witnessed in just some of the teachers that I've been exposed to or seen in, in my networks is there's not enough, grounding in, the practical aspects of actually managing money and also getting your house in order, because it's not that sexy really, is it?
Briony Gunson: And often the manifestation story or that as a process or as a tool will be accompanied by a rags to riches story, right? That someone was, like, they were on their final dollar, staying on their friend's sofa, or they were sleeping in their car, and then within a short space of time, woo-hoo, like wave the magic wand, everything in their life is fixed.
Briony Gunson: They've got a hot body and a sexy [01:03:00] partner and a fast car and seemingly everything, everything is great now. and what I witnessed is just more for so many people who yeah, you said vulnerable, who may be like me also have, profound money trauma or are just desperate to change their circumstances that, a rather what I feel like almost unethical line that I've seen, coaches say like the greater the price you pay, the greater the transformation.
Harriet Formby: Mm. Mm.
Briony Gunson: So almost equating, like, if you slap down 20,000 pounds or 50 grand on a course, babe, you are down for like, oh my God, And especially if that's, like, a huge amount of money for you, like wow, what transformation that's gonna be. So I just feel like I have met some people at trainings, in person, mindset coaching trainings, where I have felt like, ooh, speaking to them I'm like, ah.
Briony Gunson: I
Briony Gunson: I feel like the choices they're making, they're getting so swept up in, the vision and the hype and the promise and the [01:04:00] glory of what this is gonna bring them. But the grounded part of me and the business part of me wants to ask, "Where's the receipts?"
Briony Gunson: You know? Like, You may have done this transformation as the teacher, but, what has the transformation been for all your students paying eye-watering amounts of money, to also get there? So I feel like it's a powerful tool. It's, really helpful. There's so much in there that can be utilized to help us, on our own journey of, retraining our mind and body.
Briony Gunson: But it-- can feel a bit ungrounded, and it can end up just misleading people, to sell them a certain lifestyle in a certain way. And I have actually coached some women where when we've really sat down going through some of the pain or the resistance around really taking responsibility, I can see how they've been using teachings from certain teachers to help them avoid the sticky stuff.
Briony Gunson: it's like put the blinkers on, keep looking at the shiny, beautiful image of what they really want, [01:05:00] and if you just make yourself worthy enough or have hi-high enough vibe, like, it will happen. it's, an area that requires discernment and I think rubbing things up against reality, you know, in terms of they're amazing tools, but let's also be grounded in the reality, like, allowing ourselves to envision, imagine beautiful, incredible things for ourselves, and then also drop back down into the here and now and, make the most of what's here and, and not get too kinda hypnotized or seduced by certain images and certain teachers.
Harriet Formby: Hmm. Yeah, and there's something there about that feeling or which a lot of people have on safety of spending a lot of money or investing a lot of money that you don't necessarily have in something. It's almost like there's a story that comes with that, that like it's noble to throw everything at something because then you're all in and you're like serious, and we wanna be all in and serious.
Harriet Formby: But That's why it's so important to understand those emotions and feelings and what's coming up when [01:06:00] you- transfer a large sum of money. Like, what is happening to you? or when you think about taking out a loan, like understanding that because other people will, for good and bad reasons, encourage you to do things.
Harriet Formby: It might be a good reason, it might be a not so good reason, and understanding it yourself, that's so important so that anything you're doing is coming from like a grounded place. 'Cause again, it's people's own decisions what they want to do with their money, to an extent.
Harriet Formby: But, it, it's also, yeah, it's just really interesting to think of like a lot of this is probably going on because we're not in touch with our own feelings and memories that are coming up for us, and that's how it's so easy to make decisions maybe that we're not that comfortable with then in the future.
Harriet Formby: Mm.
Briony Gunson: Mm. And also the quick transformation I think is part of a culture that has quite a lot of instant gratification, and quick wins, and fast turnaround. there can be such resistance, can't there, to just doing the consistency, to just do the bog standard work, that [01:07:00] often the growth
Briony Gunson: It's not gonna be linear. There's gonna be slow days. but it's really that consistency that pays off. But again, that's not that sexy, if
Harriet Formby: Yeah. Yeah, like you said, like the financial hygiene
Briony Gunson: yeah, Yeah.
Harriet Formby: habits and
Briony Gunson: Yeah, so
Harriet Formby: Yeah.
Briony Gunson: it's really embracing the fact... I remember, you know, hearing when I was first setting out to work for myself, people saying, you know, "It takes at least five years really to build a financially successful business."
Briony Gunson: I remember thinking like, "Hmm," like not really wanting to kind of accept that. But then at the same time I was like, "But I'm in this for the long haul,"
Harriet Formby: Mm.
Briony Gunson: you know? And so sometimes when I'm working with clients, and if they've got like particular goals, and it's not my place to judge what is or isn't possible for them if they've got a certain vision.
Briony Gunson: it's more just interesting, like I've witnessed people really wanting stuff now. Why isn't it here now? Why isn't it already happening? And, Yeah, to notice how impatient we can be. And I think, again, that ties into the selling. if we can sell something and it's like a quick win, it's a fast shift, it's a huge transformation, [01:08:00] it's happening now, it's exciting, isn't it?
Briony Gunson: It's like, oh my God, the drama and both the adrenaline and the cortisol, but then also maybe the dopamine. we're on this rollercoaster and just like in relationships, what is safe can sometimes feel boring. And I think maybe we should all just practice building these, lovely, sustainable businesses that actually we understand how to run, and we get it through and through, and we feel like in control in the sense of there's a deep relationship with our business, and we understand what's happening.
Briony Gunson: isn't that fulfilling? And you know, rather than feeling like we're on this bucking bronco, and we don't really know where it's going, but it feels exciting. So yeah, I think that's a big part of it, of wanting to feel excited by stuff.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. And especially as like often the thing is once you reach the milestone, you're almost like wanting, the next thing. 'cause it's like as soon as you get more money or, you're reaching more audience, we're conditioned to then sort of look for more.
Harriet Formby: So it's not even like success is that rewarding. So like feeling [01:09:00] comfortable and happy with what you've got is so important in itself. Because like you said, if you're in it for the long haul, and this is gonna be like your way of life is running a business, then you need something that you can live with through all those different stages as well.
Harriet Formby: Yeah.
Briony Gunson: Totally. there's a story of a Mexican fisherman
Briony Gunson: the- Californian guy, like he's come up with all these business ideas. he's like, "Mate, you could, totally grow this.
Briony Gunson: Like, you could make something bigger out of this." "I reckon you could buy three more boats you could hire some more guys from the village
Briony Gunson: you could set up a little factory you could build more logistics it grows and grows and grows into this bigger vision.
Briony Gunson: "So where is this all going in the end then?" "Well, then eventually, you'll have enough money to sell it all, and then you can retire, so you can spend some time just out on your fishing boat each day just fishing." we come full circle he's already doing this. He has this relaxed life. He just potters. He gets what he needs from the sea every day, and that's it. where are we so fixated on success or our life needing to look a certain way that we miss [01:10:00] what is right in front of us?
Harriet Formby: Yes, that's always a really powerful one. also considering are we chasing somebody else's goal or dream or what we think we're supposed to want rather than examining what we actually want
Briony Gunson: I had a conversation with a coaching client where we were doing this exact thing, where she was, really looking to try to stabilize her income. And we were talking about how would it feel to hit a certain income each month. And she was talking about the safety that would be there, that it would feel like relief or, like that she could relax.
Briony Gunson: And I was like, "Great. And then what would you feel you'd be doing with your days? what would your day look like, if you've got, regular income, regular work, regular clients?" And she was describing to me her day, that she'd have a bit of a slow morning, and then she would do some journaling, spend some time with her daughter.
Briony Gunson: Then she'd, like, do a client session, go for a walk, come back, do some tidying, another client session, and then wind down for the evening. And I was like, [01:11:00] "That kind of sounds like how your life is now." You know? and the thing is sometimes we think, "When I've got lots and lots and lots of money," like I know people are like, "Oh, and the fast cars, and the big house, and the shiny things."
Briony Gunson: You know, and that's all good if people want that. But a lot of people really want to feel peace, or, like, a sense of safety, or that they're doing work they really care about, and that they've got time for their family, or their friends, or their community. And sometimes it's already here In one way or another, all the seeds of what we want is already here, but we become so hell-bent or fixated on, "This isn't what I want.
Briony Gunson: This isn't what I want. I want more," or, "This needs to be different," or, "I'll be happy when," or, "I'll feel successful when," or, "I'll finally relax when." And it's always on the horizon, like, out of our reach. And w- where might it already be here? You know, it's already here.
Harriet Formby: Yeah, and there's different stories of how you get there. It's not just like there's only one way, which is about like working really hard, [01:12:00] making loads of money, and then suddenly you get to stop. It's like that is one version, but for most people, that's not the version that's going to matter almost.
Harriet Formby:
Harriet Formby: if anyone's listening to this and they're kind of recognizing elements of, your story in, their own story, what would you like them to know?
Briony Gunson: There is a quote from Gabor Maté coming up for me. So he's a medical doctor who's also, done a lot of work around trauma. I feel like for me it is empowering to know the nature of how we can change, and this Gabor Maté quote is so lovely for that.
Briony Gunson: he says, "We may not be responsible for the world that created our mind, but we are responsible for the world with which we go on to create with our mind." Put another way, [01:13:00] we can't control the cards we're dealt in life, right? we're just dealt a certain hand, some people will be dealt a pretty sweet hand, and you're like, "Damn, they've got a really good hand."
Briony Gunson: And other times you're looking at your metaphorical cards for life, and you're like, "Really? Really?" but as we keep playing in life, putting a card down and then seeing what comes back, it's like how much can we just keep learning, right? the sort of the game of life or the dance of life.
Briony Gunson: And to know that, so much that we can't control, and especially when we're kids, we're just in this world trying to make sense of it. And as an adult, though, there's so much agency that we have, and often we are giving our power away because there's legacy beliefs there.
Briony Gunson: There's legacy, feelings and training and remembered experiences. And if we remember, "Oh, I'm an adult now," for me, I need to keep reminding myself, because I can still sometimes feel trapped, and I'm taken back to that time in the [01:14:00] bedsit, and I'll feel trapped and I'll feel stuck And so if I'm in that place and that feeling is coming up, I practice separating out, what is present day me and what is historical legacy charge and an early version of me coming up?
Briony Gunson: And to practice grounding and centering and remembering, "I'm an adult now. I can make change happen." "I can do this." But I don't have to do it on my own. I've never done it fully on my own. I've had a lot of support. So I would say be curious about what change is possible, but not from a place of you need to hustle more, work harder.
Briony Gunson: If anything, it may be, more a case of slowing down and, taking the pressure off oneself. But also just having so much compassion, rather than this shame and blame. one of my mentors uses a nice metaphor of, rather than the hammer of shame, just, smashing ourselves, have the torch or the flashlight of [01:15:00] curiosity.
Briony Gunson: So to understand that, we will be wired a certain way, we'll have been shaped a certain way by historical events. But we get to, like an artist, we get to continue to create our life every single day, and our thoughts and our feelings are steering our actions and our behaviors. So just to have loads of compassion for ourselves, and take a big deep breath and be like, "I can take responsibility for my life," you know?
Briony Gunson: "I can take responsibility for my circumstances." That said, sometimes things are way outside of our control, and I feel like the pandemic was a great example of that, where didn't matter what some people did, life just ripped us into a whole new track. or, pulled us right off the enter, right?
Briony Gunson: So sometimes we need to really practice just letting go. it's if the ship is sinking, just let it go. Just swim back. let it sink. Let it sink. So I'd say be really compassionate. Know that you can make changes. You don't have to do this [01:16:00] on your own. Reach out to other people, people you feel you can be vulnerable with, people who you feel you can be safe with, and, to recognize, yeah, that change can actually be empowering.
Briony Gunson: Yeah.
Harriet Formby: Yeah. Yeah, And I think it's so important, isn't it? finding a way to acknowledge the things that have happened, and it does involve looking back and reflection of course. But it's about how do we not get stuck there? How do we create from where we are? And we don't have to do any of that on our own
Harriet Formby: and just wanted to say thank you so much for everything you've shared today. It's, it's really, really, thought-provoking, and I think it's a really great, example of just, getting curious about what has happened and what it's doing now for money and that sort of whole journey.
Harriet Formby: But it's just so interesting how it's so intertwined, with our memories and with our bodies and, all of that stuff. And I wanted to ask you, in terms of, the work that you do, if people would like [01:17:00] to find out more about that,
Harriet Formby: and where people can find you.
Briony Gunson: Yeah, definitely. So I do quite a lot of one-to-one work. That's the bulk of the work I do with private clients, so either life coaching or business coaching. And with the business coaching piece, as I mentioned, all the work I do is very therapeutic. we can focus on the practical and really putting the fundamentals in place for our business.
Briony Gunson: So I typically work with freelancers or female founders, with helping them get clear on, the fundamentals of their business and getting their house in order. But then a big part of that is then thinking about, "Okay, what are our goals? What is-- what are your values? What is your identity or your self-image?"
Briony Gunson: And inevitably, like, when we start doing this work, stuff will start coming up, like stuff from the past, blocks that are there. And I absolutely love talking about money. I have, I've done money mindset training [01:18:00] before and, coached people, through certain trainings that I've developed. And for a long time, I kept that not hidden, but I just didn't talk about it as publicly, because I almost needed to do a bit more work with giving myself permission to do that.
Briony Gunson: But for me, because it's such a rich topic, I have so much lived experience, I feel a great excitement and a privilege to hold that space, particularly for other women. Because as I said earlier, I feel like as women, we've come so far, and it's amazing, and there's still further to go. So the more that I can support other women with, resolving money blocks and helping them see what a profound topic it is, the better, 'cause I want them out in the world using this resource for good.
Briony Gunson: so one-to-one work is a big part of what I do. I also run retreats and workshops. As you mentioned at the start, I've also done yoga teacher training, meditation teacher training, and also cold water therapy. So I'm very much a what we call bottom-up facilitator in terms of, using [01:19:00] tools around the body and somatic inquiry to get really clear on what's actually happening for us and that nervous system science.
Briony Gunson: The corporate wellbeing training I do is around stress and anxiety, and using breathwork typically as a tool to help manage that. And that speaks to a lot of my own journey around being very burnt out in my late 20s and having no idea how to manage stress and anxiety. I feel, again, really passionate about helping other people so they don't have to, struggle or suffer unnecessarily.
Briony Gunson: And you can find out about me all through the usual things. Brionygunston.com is my website. Briony Gunston on all the socials. I also have on InsightTimer, and this is a nice one relevant for the Money Story podcast, is, I have meditations. So I've got a series of meditations on YouTube and InsightTimer, and one in particular is an abundance meditation.
Briony Gunson: it was almost my response a bit to, like, the [01:20:00] manifestation piece, right? So it's like the topic of abundance is something that can be fascinating to dive into. So I've done my version of an abundance meditation and I'll, I'll share it so you can offer the link up. But it's a deeper, more expansive look of what it, what does it mean to be abundant.
Briony Gunson: And I mention money once, very fleetingly, in a 20-minute meditation. So yeah, I'll share
Harriet Formby: really interesting. Yeah. And obviously all of those will be linked in the show notes so people can click straight through and explore them. Thank you so much, Briony. And I'll just give you a bit of space now if there's anything else coming up for you,
Briony Gunson: Yeah, sure. Well, I, I will say I wanna offer thanks and appreciation for both my parents, and just to, really honor them and, there's so much that I have learnt. And even if, of course, yes, I would have preferred a more simple and/or straightforward path, there's so much that I have learnt [01:21:00] from them.
Briony Gunson: And yeah, although it was a very heavy hand, metaphorical hand to be dealt in many ways, there's so much that I've ultimately been able to, learn, about myself and life that's been huge. And, it's not just a convenient reframe to be like, "Oh, it's been so useful," and it's like, yeah.
Briony Gunson: Like, I feel like I've learnt a lot, and I just don't think any of that would have happened had we not faced that as a family. So ultimately, I'm thankful for my parents and appreciative of them, and just wanted to, yeah, give them a shout-out. Soul side, offering that thanks and appreciation to them, and also my ancestors on both sides
Harriet Formby: Really lovely. Yeah, it's really beautiful message and that journey you've been on to understand and make sense of all the things that had happened. Yeah.
Briony Gunson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Harriet Formby: Brilliant.
Briony Gunson: I'm grateful to you, Harriet, for, creating, such a, like a safe space and just a supportive space,
Briony Gunson: I've kind of waited a long time, it feels like, to share more openly.
[01:22:00]
Speaker 12: You've been listening to The Money Story Project podcast with me, Harriet Formby. If you've enjoyed the episode, please follow the show, share it and if you can, leave a review. In the show notes, you'll find links to connect with our guests and to learn more about the project itself.
Speaker 12: And if you feel called to share your own money story, you'll find details there on how to be part of a future episode. Until next time, take care and have a great day
